Doubting Bro

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Posts by Doubting Bro

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  75

  How the new "generation" study went down in the meeting today

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i made a big effort to get to the watchtower study today.

  i have not been to the meetings much for months, but i figured this was a pretty historic "study" and i wanted to see reactions and how it would go down locally.

  well a few things struck me as a bit odd in the study itself, and in the audience response as well.

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  Doubting Bro

  Our's made a couple of interesting points:

  1 - The WT conductor did bring up the "new light" regarding the disgarding of the 1935 cutoff but not in so many words. He said to remember that there are annointed in their 40s & 50s so don't read anything into the change.

  2 - He also said that what a shame it was for people to have left the organization over the 1995 change only to have it changed back 13 years later. Yikes. Of course, I probably should have raised my hand and pointed out that this change is NOT reverting to the 1942 & 1947 understanding but rather to the 1927 understanding.

  After comment #1, I was thinking maybe he was starting to wake up but comment #2 was brainwashing at its finest.

  On a positive note, I had a pretty long conversation with my wife regarding this major doctrinal change. It was an awesome conversation, very calm with lots of give and take. Virtually no cult personality comments except for one about what other religion goes to war. Had nothing to do with the conversation and I reconized the statement as a reaction from the cult personality. I rattled off a list of religions that are pacifists and then redirected the conversation back to the subject at hand.

  She noted that they used the word "seems" a few times and it "seems" to her that gives them wiggle room to change later. After going over the history of all the generations understandings she said that she thinks they'll just change it again when it suits them. I asked how holy spirit could be guiding them when they change so much and end up going back to a theory they have already disgarded. I also told her that is why I don't think the WTS is Gods channel of communication because if it was, God doesn't seem to know what He's doing.

  All in all, I really appreciate everyone's comments here, all the research and the WTS for putting into print more evidence that they don't have God's backing!
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  140

  huge announcement after the Watchtower study on the 27 of April?

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there will be a huge announcement after the watchtower study on the 27 of april.. for what it's worth, this was just sent to me anonymously.. randy.

  www.freeminds.org.

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  Doubting Bro

  The new OM (now called OD) book?? Do I win a prize

  I agree that if it was something important, it would have been leaked by now.
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  221

  Watchtower Comments THE GENERATION CHANGE Featuring LEOLAIA

  by V in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible
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  Doubting Bro

  Leolaia,

  Thanks so much for your time & effort. V - thanks for making this a pdf. Printing right now and will review later.
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  50

  elders testify

  by isaacaustin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/pe_news_local_d_faith11.41dc684.html

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  Doubting Bro

  Unless it has been changed in the last year, the procedure in the US is the same as quoted above.
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  63

  My wife is thinking AT LAST!!!!!

  by tooktheredpill in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey guys!.

  i can't wait to tell you something that happened last night.

  in order to understarnd it, let me give you some details about me first: i'm still an elder, with my wife and the whole family and friends inside the borg.

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  Doubting Bro

  TTRP,

  Congrats! I'm inspired by your "encouraging experience" and am planning on having a serious discussion with my wife regarding the latest generation change this weekend.

  I saw your other thread about another family member (did you say sis-in-law? sorry, it slipped my mind). I think many times, we (at least I am) are afraid of what the reaction may be and automatically think the worst. However, as you've shown, letting people know at their own pace is the key to get folks thinking.
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  50

  elders testify

  by isaacaustin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/pe_news_local_d_faith11.41dc684.html

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  Doubting Bro

  http://www.mydesert.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080416/NEWS08/80416002

  Closing arguments begin today

  Closing arguments today in Murrieta molestation trial The Desert Sun wire services

  Closing arguments are due to get under way today in the case of a man accused of molesting two underage sisters in Murrieta.

  Gilbert Simental, 49, is charged with three counts of lewd acts with a child under 14 and an allegation that multiple victims were involved.
  
  He faces 45 years to life if convicted on all charges, according to Deputy District
  Attorney Burke Strunsky.
  
  Another case involving a third girl has not yet come to trial.
  
  Simental's alleged crimes came to light when the mother of two girls approached school officials and said her daughters were molested by the defendant.
  
  The older of the two sisters testified last week that the defendant first touched her during a pool party and sleepover at his Murrieta home.
  
  She and her sister were friends with the 49-year-old defendant's daughter, who was
  about the same age as the younger girl.
  
  The girls' family and the defendant's family belonged to the same Jehovah's Witnesses congregation in Murrieta.
  
  The girl said Simental touched her thighs as the children played in his pool and then again later that night while she was on an air mattress in his living room. She said she awakened to find him lying next to her on the mattress.
  
  ``He was just touching my legs and stuff,'' she testified.
  
  The child said she protested but the defendant just said ``shhh'' andcontinued.
  
  ``I didn't really get it,'' she said. ``It made me feel weird, so I knew it was wrong.''
  
  The girl said she turned over on her stomach in the hopes that the defendant would go away, but he continued touching her.
  
  ``I turned and he just wouldn't stop,'' the girl said.
  
  Simental allegedly touched the child over her clothes and under her bra and pajama shorts.
  
  The mother of the sisters testified that both her daughters told her in July 2006 that they had been touched by the defendant.
  
  She said she didn't call police but did call church elders.
  
  The woman also told a teacher about the alleged molestation, and school officials called police.
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  8

  Teachings re: "this generation" (Matt. 24: 34 bzw. Luk. 21: 32)

  by bennyk in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  russell taught that "this generation" referred to people in general, who were living at a significant time in history:.

  the battle of armageddon pp.

  603-605. but understanding genea here, as elsewhere, to mean generation,.

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  Doubting Bro

  BTTT - I plan on using this as a basis for discussion with my wife this weekend. This will be the first WT study I've "studied" for in quite some time. I want to make sure that she understands all the different changes on this one yet very important piece of doctrine.

  Great research, thanks!!
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  6

  Catholic Church has paid out over 2 BILLION.......

  by nomoreguilt in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  on the abc evening news tonight, it was said that the catholic church has paid out over $ 2 billion in settlements to over 5,000 victims of sexual abuse by priests.

  do you suppose that perhaps the wtbts will approach that figure?

  either in payouts or in the number of cases that are reported??.

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  Doubting Bro

  Lets see, roughly 1 billion Catholics and 2 billion in payouts = $2 for every single Catholic. Roughly 7 million JWs and around 14 million in the most recent payout (rounding up slightly but not including other smaller payouts), so $2 for every single JW.

  I would guess that JWs will probably pass up Catholics on a per member basis soon since many of the Catholic cases have been handled yet there are still many JW cases in the pipeline.
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  63

  3 a.m. - my wife is in tears! What do I do?

  by The Scotsman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well my situation has developed a bit, any advice appreciated.. their has been a gradual building up of pressure ever since i stood down as an elder about 6 months ago.. i have been telling my wife about my doubts but have continued to attend "some" meetings.. as time has progressed i have become more open with my criticism of the org.. i mentioned the un scandal, molestation trials, false prophecy ect etc.. interestingly she does not deny these facts and yet still wants to continue as a jw.. i told her that god is not happy with people knowingly being part of a false prophet (deut 18 - etc) - starting to lay the groundwork for my exit.. she appreciates the difficult situation doubters are in - they cannot openly express their feelings for fear of jcs.. anyway, a few weeks ago we moved house which meant changing congregation.. but i felt it would be best if i did not attend meetings " at all" at the new cong so my fade could be easier.. but i could not have predicted my wifes response - when i told her it was an explosion of emotion, i mean real heartbreaker stuff.. she seems depressed at the prospect, perhaps the reality is finally hitting home.. last night, about 3a.m.

  i noticed that she was not in bed.

  i went downstairs and she was sobbing away to herself.. "i can't go to that hall myself!

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  Doubting Bro

  I recall when I first awakened to the fact that the WTS is not God's organization, I was quite depressed. Scotsman, you said that she has doubts? Perhaps she is greiving the loss of the illusion that that WTS is God's organization? If she's not comfortable going to the meetings without you, it seems that she really doesn't believe. I've read this thread with interest since I'm in a similar position (wife in, me a former elder who doesn't believe anymore). No kids makes it easier I think because if you had children, she would be able to try to use them to keep you going to help during the meeting.

  Its a tough call, but it seems since you're in a new place and were already well on your way to fading, it would be the ideal time to fade. Like others have pointed out, once you start at the new place, it will be difficult to fade. Especially if the BOE realizes you were an elder 6 months ago. If you never go, they will completely write you off immediately. If you go, they will have an obligation to "shepard" you.

  One question, who really wanted to move? If it was you, she could say that you moved her to draw her from the truth.
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  34

  JW Secret Police

  by outofthebox in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i heard about a special group inside the organization.

  its sole purpose is to find and judicialy process disidents (or apostates as they called them).

  have you heard of such secret police before?

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  Doubting Bro

  I've heard of COs that were specifically sent to certain circuits to "clean-up". In at least one instance, I've seen these "enforcer" COs take on some pretty powerful elders (city overseers with GB connections and the like). I've also seen these guys transfer local elders into congregations that need "help" (read - help in complying with the WTS guidelines). But, I've never heard of an arrangement where the WTS sends individual elders to certain spots. Quite frankly, I doubt there are that many that the WTS would even trust. Plus, if they did trust them, there's no way a person would keep quiet about being on the JW version of the SS. Talk about a "privilege".

  Isn't the CO enough?